Curse

czart · Aug 30, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Some of you said "I pug with friends". As pug I understand playing with random people, who you do not know. Playing with guildmates or friends is not a pug for me.

In case of topic title:
1) as I remember, recently I tried to pug in 3 or 4 missions during nightfall (2 successes and multiple failures), and once for doing mission during festival (one good team after a few bad trials)
2) od course if I play PvE I still prefer to do teams with people - friends, guildmates, people from alliance, this is completely diferrent experience than random pug

I agree with that which was reapeted many times in a thread - heroes are better than 90% of pugs. I played in quite many pugs in Prophecies, in a few in Factions and in almost none in Nightfall. Usually missions/quests I failed with pugs, I did with henchmans much faster. Nowadays almost each time I make crazy decision to enter a pug I discover again why I do not like them.

Here are some reasons:
1) I play a mesmer. In old days mesmer was the last character which people would choose to party, simply no one wanted you. I do not know how it is now, as I have not done pug for a long, long time, but probably nothing changed.
1a) Maybe someone tell me how may I enter Tombs Of Primeval Kings being a mesmer? No one will take you. The only possibility is going alone with heroes.
2) I want to view all cinematics and read all descriptions of quests/missions - most people not.
3) I like journeying all area, not just rush through quest/mission as fast as possible, doing all game in 3 days is no fun for me
4) In pug's opinion only one build is allowed, no invention, no diversity (how boring it is), the example is elementalist skill fire storm, which was very much hated by almost all pugs, while it was one of the best PvE ele skills, if used properly, for example for defensive purposes
5) very often people promise to do bonus during taking you to group, and in game it appears that no one really cares for bonus, they only wanted to do their egoisitc goal and do not care of your
6) pugs usually disband after fail (at least 50% of people leave) which make you waste of time - see 7
7) finding people to a team takes a lot of time
8) pugs almost never listen to suggestions
9) pugs usually do not know when it is time to go back from fight, which effects all team die

Some advantages of heroes:
1) they do what you want (sometimes they have "bugs", but very, very rarely)
2) they do not aggro mobs from all map
3) they have build which you want (it's minor advantage, as it really doesn't matter for me in PvE if a build is "typical" or "experimental", as long as it works OK, and a player knows what he is doing with it)
4) you may pause game in any moment

The Great Al · Aug 30, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfal

Hey Al, didn't realize you posted here...then again I probably haven't for a year.

Anyways, I find the heroes and henchies, while somewhat annoying and taking more effort, are more intelligent and better than 99% of pug groups. Plus, in the time it takes to get a pug group together and screen them to make sure you don't have mes/necro with fast-casting MM skills, and making sure you don't have any Wa/Mos (I'm referring to the mentality of majority melee players, not just the build), you could have attempted and failed 10 times with heroes/henchies.

Just my opinion. I do however agree that it would be nice to find real groups forming more quickly...otherwise it's hard to build friendships or find other neat alliances or players.

That's one thing that A-Net never anticipated. They have attempted to make the game "solo-able", but that kills the need for a guild, other than PvP, and will eventually kill the game if it goes unchecked. I mean, can you really have "Guild Wars" without the "Guilds"?

Hey El! Haha, I still have my guild name as 'ALOA' on here.

This is a problem that I'm not sure will be fixed with GW2. They have already stated that they are going to make a lot of the content soloable (not soloable as in, a player with H/H, but actually soloable by just yourself).

The only area that I can consistently easily find groups in is The Deep, and that's only because I'm an Elementalist, one of the 4 accepted classes there.

OhCrapLions · Aug 30, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Thankfully ANET stated that they are working on a way to make GW2 solo able (stat scaling?).

Apharot · Aug 30, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Some of you that say that PUGs suck and can't play guild wars, can't take directions, etc. I offer you this. Maybe it's not the pugs, maybe it's your command abilities. Not everyone is a good/effective leader. There's more to leading than just bashing the crap out of stuff. Maybe it's just my military background, but I like doing things like sending my heros off to one side, then I head straight up for a frontal assault with henchies, and the heros come barreling in from the side hitting the exposed spell casters. Now, I'm not sure how much this makes a difference, but it sure is fun LOL. I'm sure it makes a difference with PUGs since they will be smart enough to target spell casters and you don't have to tell them to do it every time.

iridescentfyre · Aug 30, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Personally I hate how formal PUGs make everything. When you introduce other humans (this includes intelligent friends and guildies), suddenly we need to spend an hour putting together builds, trying to make sure people are paying attention, making sure everyone has a rez, etc. Playing with other people literally doubles the time it takes to do something, even if I would do lots of extra exploring if I were solo.

Once we get all that sorted out and leave (assuming no one has quit yet), of course then we run into the issue of player competence that has been mentioned so much in this thread.

For pretty much all missions, quests, and other tasks I do often, I'd rather just bring heroes. They don't question orders, they don't want democracy in the group (which always = phail), they don't leave, and they bring what I tell them to. They also don't care if I feel like going AFK for a few minutes to get a drink, answer the phone/door, or cook something. The only times I really ever group with others is when someone wants my help... then its usually Me + them + 6 heroes. That's how I do FoW, and I'm sure that's how I'll do dungeons in EotN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

It's just mind-boggling how many players boot up GW, ask to join a team, click that "accept" button, and completely and utterly ignore chat for the following 45 minutes.

My god that is so true.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhCrapLions

Thankfully ANET stated that they are working on a way to make GW2 solo able (stat scaling?).

I really hope that means 100% of the game and not 25% of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

It's just mind-boggling how many players boot up GW, ask to join a team, click that "accept" button, and completely and utterly ignore chat for the following 45 minutes.

They dont ignore all chat most of the time, when you say Hi and ask about skills all they say is 'GO'.... Can we just Go? Go Go Go! Can we Go now?'

Then after you start playing, endure breasts and genitalia on the mini map and get caned:

'OMG your a noob' <Rage Quit>.

Its hardly how I want to spend my time enjoying GW.

Servant of Kali · Aug 30, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apharot

Some of you that say that PUGs suck and can't play guild wars, can't take directions, etc. I offer you this. Maybe it's not the pugs, maybe it's your command abilities. Not everyone is a good/effective leader. There's more to leading than just bashing the crap out of stuff.

Im a very effective leader, but there's only as much as you can do with bad quality team.

Let me tell you something from PvP in RA. Lava map. 2 leavers in my team, so it was me as assassin plus ele VS monk+rt+r+ one more. 2v4, exactly. Now, I explained the strategy to teammate, we did guerrilla tactic and it worked. We won. 2v4. With them having a monk. This would NOT be possible if I had a full team of 4 players because those 2 more players mean 200% more chance there's someone who is both clueless and just can't follow the team. I used to draw stuff on minimap after some teams didn't listen to what I typed. All in vain. Really, some people are good, some are not. If they ain't you can be the best leader in the world, but there's nothing you can do. You can be the best soccer coach in the world but if your team sucks your effort will only go as far.

doinchi · Aug 30, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

As far as I'm concerned...

PuG > Hero > Henchmen > Solo

I have had many bad experiences with PuGs, but its always just one player doing something stupid or being a jerk. I can handle that. If it leads to a party wipe, we go back to an outpost, kick him/her and go again. I find it extremely dull and boring playing with henchies. I am willing to deal with that because PuGs are better at conversations than Henchies. "For Ascalon and the Wall!" and "I'm really left handed!" don't cut it. I tolerate heros because they look cool and I can customized their attire, equipment and skills.

Back on topic, I find it extremely hard to find a group to go questing. Usualy I do quests, including primary ones, using Henchmen and Heroes. For Missions I almost always get into a PuG. Much more fun that way. Whats the point of playing an COORPG solo?

erfweiss · Aug 30, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

I look at the issue as being time. Trying to vanquish an entire continent, there aren't a whole lot of people wanting to do that. So, I hero/hench it.

So far, 18/33 in Cantha in a week. I look at it where the heros listen, I know I'll have proper interrupts for casters, etc. Of that 18, only 3 zones have been with people.

wilebill · Aug 30, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Mostly I group with guildies or friends. Other than that, it's heroes and hench.

In the upper levels of any of the chapters, PUGs are sometimes good. But they are also often simply ridiculous. The guy who doesn't know he has to be infused around Mursaat. People get into absurd arguments, pick on each other, rage quit. Just one player short, but we're waiting on a friend of his who has to finish dinner, he'll be right here! Players whose incompetence can only be explained by the fact that they are stoned! Players who brag about being stoned as they aggro the party to death. Serious griefers, I've met a few. Mind boggling stupidity.

Best thing to do is find a good guild, make friends you can trust and rely on.

Tutis Evito · Aug 30, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Just to stick my 2p into it all ... I PUG, i will freely admit i pug, 90% of the time its enjoyable and i have no problem at all, I cant belive the amount of people saying how crap pugs are...im sure there are some right numpties...maybe you've been unlucky, but gernerally I havent ever had a problem with a pug...sure sometimes there is a player with a strnage build, like i once saw a mo/e with only ele skills, but thats what you expect as a pug i guess.

Id love to join a guild/allaince where they are all wanting to quest/explore with you, but i guess i am sentimental about my guild/allaince as we used to be big ( 2mil factions as a guild alone) and then we disbanded so its like only me , guild leader who is active with 15 inactive members left... i guess its cos i like my own gh, my own pad where i can just stand with no online 'noise'

becasue of this i have to pug, i hate doing missions with h/h , i explore and do titiles with h/h but with missions/quests i prefer real people to talk to...

Maybe im to old and setimental and should find a new guild/allaince

Kusandaa · Aug 30, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

When I want a team, I want it EFFECTIVE. Which most pugs aren't. That's my only problem, and why I don't PUG much more these days. I used to it often... and then came Hard Mode. For some reason, I noticed a big drop of quality coming from PUGs since then. I can't tell the last time I finished 8/8 in Tombs aside from when I play with 5 or more from my alliance. There is ALWAYS one that says "OMFG NOOB MONK/PULLER/MM/BP" or just leaves for NO reason (heck I had a "I'm bored, I'm outta this" from a PUG in a mission >_>), or worse... one single guy that doesn't listen and messes the WHOLE group, then blames other people.

I play with my friends or the alliance nowadays, and sometimes we take people instead of heroes. I've seen people with horrible builds; when it stuff that doesn't make ANY sense, it's an insta-kick (like a ToPK orders with Meteor Shower, Immolate and no self-heal, whose typing made me think he was gonna say "OMFG NOOB" and then would have left at the first mob). When the bar is decent, I give tips without being mean at all. Sometimes it work, but sometimes I get a "Noob, my bar is great, STFU I'm not changing".

I run with odd builds myself (these days I don't play a typical R/Rt splinter barrage, I'm a N/R b/p with Mark of Pain) and I KNOW it works. I'd never get into a pug like this because they would say "a necro can't b/p *kick*". So I've turned to either making my own groups or getting my alliance to tag along.

And it's about the same for missions. I don't want to spend 2 hours trying to get PUGs and setting bars every time I want to do a mission. I ask my alliance if they can bring such, such and such with such skills... and if people are available and in mood of helping, they're gonna come. If it's a mission we're going to use heroes instead, and if it's an elite area we'll get other people.

As for questing, I barely quest (hate it) and when I do, it's with heroes/hench so I can do whatever I want. I'm free to zone, rezone, resign, or do as many quests I want in the area. Because hearing "hey i need tat quest and i wanna do it now!!!!!!!!!!!! *goes on their own to finish their quest*" is NOT something I wanna see when I'm the middle of another quest...

WhiteLightHealing · Aug 30, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

i dont pugs. Why u ask.

Hero/ hench faster

The reason is.

1. Time consuming, waiting for people to join.
2. most of the build they bring, SUX
3. Noobies people
4. They all think they know everything
5. agrro too much
6. Dont know when to back up.
7. Doing it with hero/hench are faster, dont have to deal with idiot PUGZ
8. run with hero/hench, control them the way u wanted.
9. LEEEERRROOOOryyyyy everyone kill some random monster, not concentrating one at a time. Hero, ping and they all attack the same target.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 30, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I don't help low-level players any more unless they're friends I already know.

I decided to help some people in Zen Daijun (give them a free run) with my Warrior Dervish, Prelatius Eversius.

Turns out they were rich, experienced players (I should have realized that and quit as soon as I saw their Zodiac weapons, which, I might note, were probably inferior to my Eyes of the Forgotten) and thought that I was a noob (they must have thought Wammo was the way to go with warriors). They also had peculiar ideas about resurrection spells and the usage thereof. I did the mission, no thanks to them, and did it faster than most pro runners, without charging them anything.

Immediately as soon as we arrived at Seitung Harbor, I was called a noob and laughed at by them. They did not bother telling me where they got their interesting opinion, so I set them all on my ignore list and left. Arrogant little pricks.

Buster · Aug 31, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Ok here is an example of why i don't PUG much anymore. I was taking my warrior through NF and I was about to so Gate of Pain mission. So i figured I try to pug it simply because I haven't in awhile. I tried 6 times with pug groups to get through this mission, all failed. Then I got so frustrated I decided to use hench/hero and I made it the first try.

Other reasons, I hate it when people draw stupid things on the map while trying to play in the group, immaturity I say. Also hated when people would leave your group in the middle of a mission, especially the monks. Heroes and hench never leave you. Unless you are a guildie or a friend or even a friend of a friend then chances are I don't go with other people. Heroes ftw !

kobey · Aug 31, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Pug is fun no doubt

But after comparing the time I spend on prophecies and faction (when there are no hero's) to the time I spent on all 3 campaigns (after heros are introduced), I know which one is more time effective.

Not saying pug don't do well. I run missions and I realize that most of my customers do know what they are doing and have effective builds etc.

Edit: Just got to share this experience I keep having while waiting for customer in outposts. I have 7/8 hero/hench waiting for my customer to arrive. Some random pug adds me, sees that I have all hero/hench, and straight away cancels his invitation. I just find it funny.

Nemo the Capitalist · Aug 31, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

It's near impossible to get a group of people together to go questing in the new area. There's TONS of people, but they all just care about going with henchmen/heroes. Across 9+ districts, using the party search gets 1, maybe 2 responses. I'd rather take the chance and play with a lousy PuG that at least may stir up some decent conversation, than play with the AI all the time.

I do agree with you on one thing Pugging is by far more fun and you actually get to talk to people throught the game.

Very fun you can actaully meet people who are ok and establish a relationship with later on in game etc...

You can also encounter trolls( mean people)
so its a Tradeoff.

Imo id rather PUG with incompetent players than do heros all the time you need breaks from henchies.

On the other hand Use Heros and hench men if u want to to past basic missions

ELITES etc go with players u know who are competent at misssion etc Deep, Urgoz, Mallyx ebony citadel etc

Lord Xeshm · Aug 31, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I group depending on what needs to be done. If I am trying to achieve the Cartographer title, most don't want/care to help me so I am forced to go in with Heroes and henchman. But, if it's a mission and I don't care about anything else but to get that mission done, I will group up just for the heck of it.

MMSDome · Aug 31, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I group with guildies and friends and people i know will be good. I dont waste time finding out with pugs because I just want to get through the mission, usually hero's get the job done too.

Tranquilis · Aug 31, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

So much negativity, fear, unertainty, and elitism...

I'll grant that I solo a LOT, but it's not from fear of the PuG... As I've said on many occasion before, I find no problems with PuGs, and generally do verywell with them. Then I read a thread like this, and I wonder... *Why* is it that *my* PuGs usually succeed, while so many others hates them? *Why* is it that *my* PuGs are generally polite, cooperative, and helpful? *Why* is it that *I* have such a low incidence of jerks in *my* PuGs?

It cannot *simply* be luck - success is too common. I've lead and followed PuGs through the Fire Islands, into Shiro's face, and stormed the Gates of Madness, and found that I have a good time and good success. So, if it isn't random chance, and it isn't the random strangers I join, then why is MY PuG experience so different from so may others?

Then I look again, and decide that it's all about attitude. As in, "I Don't Cop An Attitude In My Groups." Or maybe it's because *I* act in a helpful, polite, and cooperative fashion, rather than misbehave? I've come to conclude that an ability and a *willingness* to treat the strangers in PuGs like I treat my guildies and friends goes a long, long way towards success.